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 Post subject: Grixis Control
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:16 pm 
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Elder Dragon

Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 7:07 pm
Posts: 1014
Location: Northampton, England
2 Noxious Gearhulk

3 Renegade Map
4 Servo Schematic
3 [card]Cogworker's Puzzleknot[/card]
3 [card]Tezzeret's Touch[/card]

3 Fatal Push
1 Shock
2 Metallic Rebuke
2 Unlicensed Disintegration
1 Perilous Predicament
1 Brutal Expulsion

1 Flaying Tendrils
2 Painful Truths
2 Ruinous Path
4 [card]Yahenni's Expertise[/card]
1 Dark Intimations

1 Westvale Abbey
4 Spire of Industry
4 Sunken Hollow
4 Foreboding Ruins
3 Choked Estuary
3 Spirebluff Canal
3 Swamp
2 Island
1 Mountain

Sideboard:
2 Implement of Combustion vs. Copycat/oh no I need more artifacts
2 Aethersphere Harvester vs. Aggressive style decks
3 Shielded Aether Thief vs. Aggressive style decks
2 Metallic Rebuke
1 Shock vs. aggro/Copycat for Fatal Push when it feels appropriate
2 Herald of Anguish when it seems good
2 Release the Gremlins vs. Artifact combos

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Peasant Cube: http://www.cubetutor.com/peasant360 (Foiled 360 common/uncommon cube)
Unpowered Cube: http://www.cubetutor.com/herald360 (360)
Graveyard Set: http://www.cubetutor.com/graveshift (530, set draft)


Last edited by HeraldBFC on Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Grixis Control
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:15 am 
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Elder Dragon
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 7:46 pm
Posts: 1527
I don't understand some MB choices....

Why Welcome to the Fold?


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 Post subject: Re: Grixis Control
PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:41 am 
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Elder Dragon
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Follow on....

I feel like there is something behind the following cards in one deck:

Elder-Deep Fiend
Dark Intimations

If you can cycle Fiend to another Fiend to Time Walk your opponent, and then follow it up with a Dark Intimations ... it SEEMS like you can just keep getting value out of this until you run out of Intimations. Thought?


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 Post subject: Re: Grixis Control
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:20 pm 
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Elder Dragon

Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 7:07 pm
Posts: 1014
Location: Northampton, England
Turns out my campus thinks this is a spam site.
Fiend/Intimations sounds amazing but not good for this deck. Maybe when Bolas is here to take full advantage?
Welcome made sense till i realised it was toughness. Power is utterly awful really.

Updating the 75 soon.
Minusi implements, key, flames, brutality,welcome.
Plus cogworkers, disintegration, battle at the bridge, release the gremlins.

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Peasant Cube: http://www.cubetutor.com/peasant360 (Foiled 360 common/uncommon cube)
Unpowered Cube: http://www.cubetutor.com/herald360 (360)
Graveyard Set: http://www.cubetutor.com/graveshift (530, set draft)


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 Post subject: Re: Grixis Control
PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:29 pm 
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Elder Dragon

Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 7:07 pm
Posts: 1014
Location: Northampton, England
Actually updated it this time.

I really need to figure out how to play Torrential Gearhulk in this deck. It feels like the artefact subtheme makes it nigh on impossible to get the instant/creature count up without losing Mana Leak etc. :/

_________________
Peasant Cube: http://www.cubetutor.com/peasant360 (Foiled 360 common/uncommon cube)
Unpowered Cube: http://www.cubetutor.com/herald360 (360)
Graveyard Set: http://www.cubetutor.com/graveshift (530, set draft)


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 Post subject: Re: Grixis Control
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 10:23 am 
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Elder Dragon

Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 7:07 pm
Posts: 1014
Location: Northampton, England
Trying out a few versions of the same basic shell right now. This is a version I'm planning on using at FNM to combat BR Eldrazi Aggro, BG variants, RW Vehicles, and the odd Odric combo which seems to be a thing at my store?
I've realised that Implement of Combustion is kind of a bust most of the time unless someone actually IS playing Nahiri Combo - it's nice to board into with Incendiary Sabotage or Herald of Anguish and enables a T2 Metallic Rebuke quite well but besides that it could be a lot better.
I hate Brutal Resolve SO SO MUCH. I keep reading it as 'sac a permanent, draw 2' which is so much better than sac a creature/land. With the original reading I had it in my deck as a Torrential Gearhulk flashback target - early game, sac a Servo Schematic, then later on you can sacrifice a land given that they likely don't matter at 6 mana with a Hulk on the board. Now though I REALLY don't like sacrificing a Human Cleric or a Servo token, even if doing so at instant speed in response to a block is still pretty decent.

Anyway, maindeck:
[+] Click to Show Spoiler
2 Torrential Gearhulk
2 Noxious Gearhulk

3 Renegade Map
4 [card]Cogworker's Puzzleknot[/card]

2 Shock
3 Fatal Push
1 Grasp of Darkness
2 Horribly Awry
1 [card]Jace's Scrutiny[/card] (card draw, artifacts, and early interaction are all issues with the deck.)
1 Complete Disregard (kills seemingly everything other than a Verdurous or delirious Grim Flayer?)
2 Unlicensed Disintegration (should really be a playset maybe?)
1 Brutal Expulsion (tempo good stuff)
1 Perilous Predicament (kill your vehicle and the thing which piloted it)

1 Flaying Tendrils (because -5/-5 discard a card is a thing. Also gets rid of Scrapheap Scroungers)
2 Painful Truth (is that this is still the best card draw spell in 3 colour)
2 Ruinous Path
4 [card]Yahenni's Expertise[/card] (this should hopefully sweep 95% of a board and allow the follow up spell to kill the last one)
1 Dark Intimations (because killing that last creature, discarding the last card, getting back a Gearhulk, and drawing blind is big game)

3 Choked Estuary
4 Sunken Hollow
4 Foreboding Ruins
3 Spirebluff Canal
4 Spire of Industry
3 Island
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Westvale Abbey (debating this versus Blighted Fen or Blighted Cataract but I feel like the creatures are usually going to be big enough for even a really high mana/life chump to be useful. Plus the potential for surprise Ormendahl)


Sideboard:
[+] Click to Show Spoiler
1 Brutal Expulsion (extra combo/creature combat coverage)
1 Shock (more early game/when Push or Grasp isn't as necessary)
1 Shamble Back (good god I wish that the other, shitty, instant speed version of this was in the format.)
3 Shielded Aether Thief (dat fourth point of toughness that you always forget about tho.)
2 Metallic Rebuke (because sometimes you need that hard counter because you shifted into the more artifact heavy Herald version)
2 Release the Gremlins (so much worse without Servo Schematic in your deck for the late game all in Release but still necessary due to the number of artifacts in the format)
1 Torrential Gearhulk (I couldn't fit 3+ in the maindeck so this will likely be necessary in some other matchups due to how much value flashback gives you)
2 Herald of Anguish (so so good if you can get it by T5)
2 Implement of Combustion (concession to Saheeli combo being in the format. Really good with Herald of Anguish/Rebuke being boarded into the deck.)


The biggest loss here is the cute 7 Servo Schematic/[card]Cogworker's Puzzleknot[/card] with [card]Tezzeret's Touch[/card] in the early game to ruin early attackers but I figure having more ACTUAL interaction that can probably ACTUALLY KILL THINGS rather than just chumping and fuelling Metallic Rebuke is more necessary in the format.

The problem with control at the moment is blatantly clear:
- Lack of a hard sweeper: Languish and Crux of Fate weren't perfect in their format, but they allowed for a 5 toughness deck and a dragon deck respectively to exist in a control shell whereas right now on one hand Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet is SWANKTASTIC with [card]Yahenni's Expertise[/card] but you're never ever going to get what you really want out of the card - i.e. a definite sweeper. One Always Watching makes this worthless, you need to cast it post combat to even theoretically get Heart of Kiran and ilk, and man is Collective Effort a beating in general against your deck.
- The gymnastics of card advantage: Glimmer of Genius is in the format and thank christ it is because there's no other decent options for cards. Problem is that it and most of your other options all require construction gymnastics to properly use in a control deck - Glimmer is good with Aether Hub and Shielded Aether Thief (an underrated card in my opinion, basically being blue Wall of Omens with Glimmer/Hub and the probability of multiple blocks occurring), but it's ass outside of its ability to be hit twice with Torrential Gearhulk. Painful Truths is bad unless you have the ability to run Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet or, say, Dovin Baan because you can't afford the 3 life which turns it into a godsend in most matchups - it'd be different if Control Mirrors were a hope rather than an expectation but it isn't outside of the Pro Tour circuit.
- Election of core strategy: What is your Trump card? Answer: All of them and none of them because they're all shit. Where is Dragonlord Silumgar or Ugin, the Spirit Dragon? Answer: They're probably in Amonkhet. UB/x control is so niche at the moment because there isn't a definitive HERE'S WHERE I WIN button to build towards unless you're playing, I dunno, Eldrazi in the maindeck? It's very odd in my opinion. WU can at least slowly crush you with Dovin Baan's emblem or the Archangel Avacyn that it's playing, and RWU gets the benefit of being able to Saheeli Rai/Felidar Guardian at the moment. This is almost certainly a deliberate choice on the part of WotC, given their preference for rising and falling action over a definitively good and omnipresent archetype, but it's making it quite difficult to play the deck right now.
- Flavour of the week: Oh shit, we actually have a somewhat healthy format. I don't need to put 4 Disallow/Summary Dismissal into a deck in order to deal with a Sultai Emerge Elder Deep Fiend deck every week, there's no Emrakul, the Promised End to need answering by turn 4 (aka I've lost if I'm second), and I don't need Harnessed Lightning outright immediately for [card]Smuggler's Copter[/card]. But I also have no clue what flavour of aggressive deck I need to defend against. Sure, the lack of graveyard interaction outside of counterspell/removal choices at least means I'm not in the Modern Dredge/(formerly) Storm scenario of "I lose if I don't have Leyline of the Void/Leyline of Sanctity in my 75", but it's also a lot more difficult to plan things out. Some weeks [card]Yahenni's Expertise[/card]+Ruinous Path will clean house, other weeks it's better to run Flaying Tendrils because Mardu Vehicles basically can't handle that card if you do it slightly off curve. It feels weird to complain about 'oh god I actually have choices to make' and 'Oh wow I'm not going to face the same 75 every week because it's already 100% tuned' but oh god I have to make choices and that is terrifying.

Anyway, the real choice with Grixis may in fact turn out to be 'I should really just go all in on Improvise instead' but that's both a) a lot worse than just going Mardu Vehicles or a Vehicle based aggro strategy in general and b) isn't really my play style. The basis of the Grixis Improvise deck is something like this:
4 Servo Schematic
4 Renegade Map
4 [card]Tezzeret's Touch[/card]
4 Maverick Thopterist
4 Herald of Anguish (5 stars would sad again)
And then every single artifact synergy you can cram in, it's a midrangey style clusterfuck of beautiful curve outs which occasionally gets flattened when your opponent either figures out what you're trying to do or just goes "THIS turn is when I care" and it's very all in in my opinion. Admittedly this is something I can say about my Control deck(s) that I've posted so far in the thread but at least in those cases I'm all in on ruining YOUR all in strategy whereas you could breathe on this and it'd fall apart, so I feel a lot worse about it. Seems a lot more appropriate for simply choosing to spike one specific event more than anything else.

TLDR: PLEASE LET THE INEVITABLE AMONKHET BOLAS BE ULTRA STANDARD PLAYABLE SO THAT I FEEL JUSTIFIED IN PLAYING GRIXIS!!!!

_________________
Peasant Cube: http://www.cubetutor.com/peasant360 (Foiled 360 common/uncommon cube)
Unpowered Cube: http://www.cubetutor.com/herald360 (360)
Graveyard Set: http://www.cubetutor.com/graveshift (530, set draft)


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 Post subject: Re: Grixis Control
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:46 am 
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Elder Dragon
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 7:46 pm
Posts: 1527
Ive been pushing Grixis for the same reason...


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 Post subject: Re: Grixis Control
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:02 pm 
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Elder Dragon

Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 7:07 pm
Posts: 1014
Location: Northampton, England
And this was the Game Day version of the deck.

Main Deck
[+] Click to Show Spoiler
4 Torrential Gearhulk
1 Noxious Gearhulk

2 Shock
3 Fatal Push
2 Grasp of Darkness
2 Anticipate
1 Negate
1 Horribly Awry
2 Unlicensed Disintegration
4 Disallow
1 Brutal Expulsion
1 Glimmer of Genius

1 Transgress the Mind
2 Painful Truths
2 Ruinous Path
1 Flaying Tendrils
3 [card]Yahenni's Expertise[/card]
1 Dark Intimations

1 Ob Nixilis, Reignited

4 Aether Hub
4 Sunken Hollow
4 Foreboding Ruins
3 Choked Estuary
3 Spirebluff Canal
1 Westvale Abbey
3 Swamp
2 Island1
1 Mountain


Sideboard
[+] Click to Show Spoiler
1 Shock
1 Horribly Awry (Because jesus christ this format needs Essence Scatter but that card would be too good for standard currently.)
1 Complete Disregard (I have this for small vehicles, Scrounger, and shit like that. Because of the matchups I actually faced it was basically useless to me?)
1 Brutal Expulsion (In retrospect? Totally main deck material)
1 Walking Ballista (For Saheeli combo. So much better than Implement)
1 Noxious Gearhulk (The Gearhulk you're fine with just playing as a threat.)
2 Release the Gremlins (Honestly? This is almost main deck material. At worst you seem to always be able to kill a clue token or such)
2 Negate
2 Glimmer of Genius
3 Shielded Aether Thief (These would be so much better if I always main'd 4 Glimmer of Genius but I can't find the room for those right now?)


Went 3-1 in a 16 man event - I was the top Northamptonian, the top 2 were two guys who travelled down from London to spike our event apparently?
2-1 vs. Jeskai Saheeli - G1 was a long slugfest of neither of us really doing what we wanted to do, G2 was relatively quick, G3 I won against two Fevered Visions and several attempts to combo off. I ended the game on 4 life thanks to Noxious Gearhulk on Thraben Inspector and Disallow on a Visions trigger.
2-1 vs. RUG Pummeler - G1 was lost because I blanked on Voltaic Brawler and thought it was a Shade so I Disallowed the trigger allowing his other attacker to Uncaged Fury for lethal. G2 and G3 were 8 card sideboards to just about deny every single play that my opponent made over the course of the game - including three "Brutal Expulsion the removal spell you just countered, kill your creature in response to your last pump" to go alllll in on that value. Expulsion is absolutely disgusting in any creature based games... AKA, it's absolutely disgusting in standard.
1-2 vs. UR Paradox Engine/Colossus/Barrage Tyrant - G1 was fine until three Sanctum of Ugin turned into Metalwork Colossi. G2 was just 4 Torrential Gearhulk hits because he kept a bad hand vs. Release the Gremlins, Disallow, and 2 Negate. G3 was basically just like G1 honestly? This deck just doesn't really deal with THAT much fat being spilled on the board at once given, again, the lack of hard sweepers FFS WOTC.
2-0 vs. BR Madness? Vampires? - Honestly, I'd love to say that I played well, but the truth is that game one was mana screw and game two was mana flood by an aggro deck versus a deck that ALWAYS had the right answers - G2 neither player really did much for the first 8 turns because he basically didn't have an early game other than Fatal Pushed cards and I didn't have creatures or Westvale Abbey, so the moment he started getting nonland cards I already had three [card]Yahenni's Expertise[/card], 2 Grasp of Darkness, Noxious Gearhulk, and Dark Intimations for supreme rub ins. Worst part is that I was planning on conceding this round so I could do some mass trading for stuff... but the match was over so quickly that it didn't make a difference.

Overall, I'm not actually that sure how I could improve the deck for Round 3 other than just demolishing my game against everything else in the field. At the FNM before the game day I felt that I'd overspecialised for the aggressive matchup that I didn't have any game for the control mirror or combo decks - I lost to a Bant Clue/Mechanized Production deck in R2 and went "Yeah I don't have enough interaction for this matchup" so I immediately slammed 4 Disallow into my deck. I'm also super vulnerable to Planeswalker control decks - Gideon is somewhat fine dependent on when they cast it now, but everything else feels awful unless I get somewhat lucky with draws.

Amonkhet CANNOT come quickly enough for this deck. I'm really looking forward to (hopefully?) crushing March FNMs for all the Incendiary Flows but beyond that it's super awkward.

_________________
Peasant Cube: http://www.cubetutor.com/peasant360 (Foiled 360 common/uncommon cube)
Unpowered Cube: http://www.cubetutor.com/herald360 (360)
Graveyard Set: http://www.cubetutor.com/graveshift (530, set draft)


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 Post subject: Re: Grixis Control
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 3:30 pm 
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Elder Dragon
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 7:46 pm
Posts: 1527
Is march Incendiary Flow???


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 Post subject: Re: Grixis Control
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 4:11 pm 
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Elder Dragon

Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 7:07 pm
Posts: 1014
Location: Northampton, England
fessus viator wrote:
Is march Incendiary Flow???

Yup.

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Peasant Cube: http://www.cubetutor.com/peasant360 (Foiled 360 common/uncommon cube)
Unpowered Cube: http://www.cubetutor.com/herald360 (360)
Graveyard Set: http://www.cubetutor.com/graveshift (530, set draft)


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 Post subject: Re: Grixis Control
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:48 pm 
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Elder Dragon
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Joined: Tue May 31, 2016 7:46 pm
Posts: 1527
Nice - and its pretty sick looking. And then a couple months later, we get Unlicensed Disintegration! Things are all coming up Millhouse.


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